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What about black gutters? Gutter guards??
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(self-titled) semi-posting lurker
Minor Deity
Picture of ShiroKuro
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Ax, where does the rain go?? That just looks like it would slide right off as if there were no gutters at all, but I'm sure I'm missing something!


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's a little hard to see.

There are two pieces: the gutter (white with green interior), and the gutter guard (brown).

The rain runs across the top of the guard and then over the front edge, and into the gutter.

My neighbors had something similar from LeafGuard , and they did have problems with needles going over the edge with the rain, resulting in the gutters clogging.
LeafGuard will come out and clean the gutters out for no charge if they clog, which they did at my neighbors. They had needles and fine matter that clogged the gutters almost every year.

They tend to be quite expensive. When I priced them, they were basically double the cost of just gutters. And much more expensive than installing a separate guard like the Costco product.


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Posts: 31287 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
(self-titled) semi-posting lurker
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I kind of thought that's what it was, but thanks for the confirmation. I just can't see how that would be suitable in a real down pour, it seems like there would be too much water and it would overshoot and just slide right off rather than wrapping around that lip and going into the gutter.


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Surface tension. And yes, in really heavy rain, you could see some dripping from the edge; I don't know that it makes that much of a difference, though.

Here's a pretty good overview of the various types of gutter guards:

https://www.familyhandyman.com...uards-for-your-home/


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Posts: 31287 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
in really heavy rain, you could see some dripping from the edge; I don't know that it makes that much of a difference, though


How could that be? If it's really pouring, and water starts flowing over the edge, it's not going to be a little dripping. Anytime water goes over the edge and not into the gutter, that defeats the purpose of the gutter itself.

We are getting our gutters replaced because we want to make sure water goes away from the house. I'll look at that link again tomorrow, but I just don't see how the surface tension model could be sufficient in the heavy rain storms we get several times a year down here.


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This, from the article:

quote:
water can shoot over them in heavy downpours.


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yea, but an inch past the gutter the rain goes straight down to the ground anyway. And if it’s truly a gully washer you may still flood in certain areas no matter how you do the gutters. There’s just so much you can do to mitigate.

We had a rain storm before we had gutter guards. It rained so hard that the gutters overflowed everywhere. There was literally more water coming down than the gutters could hold and the downspouts could drain.

Making sure they are pitched properly and that there are enough downspouts going to the best areas to drain away from the house is where you can improve most on what you have. Also looking at grading. I was amazed when my neighbor had a surveyor out to check the grade on her property. Her problem area wa 11 inches below the sidewalk grade. I never would have guessed that looking at it.

We had no gutters at all on our vacation home. Worked great because everything was graded away on all sides of the house.

That said, I’m not a fan of the surface tension types because they are expensive and hard to clean if they do clog.


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Posts: 31287 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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We went the other direction and decided not to get gutter guards. First, they were expensive, and it would take a lot of gutter cleanings by a professional company to add up to the price of the gutters. This was especially so given that our roof is such that it is not safe to get onto it and clean the gutters. So if the gutter guard also needed to be cleaned, we would be hiring the professionals periodically anyway.

Until someone comes up with a gutter system that itself does not need to be clean, we will just continue hiring a company to maintain our gutters. We did put on larger gutters when we replace them when we replace the roof, and that did seem to make a big difference in how much water they could handle. Our roof is very steep.
 
Posts: 19286 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wtg: There’s just so much you can do to mitigate.


Indeed, but I think we can do more to mitigate. I don't think those surface tension ones are good choice because I would bet we would have more issues with those than a different option.

quote:
That said, I’m not a fan of the surface tension types because they are expensive and hard to clean if they do clog.


The hard to clean part is a big problem as well.

If we do end up going with gutter guards, they won't be this style!

Cindy, your comment about still needing professional cleaning is another thing I'm thinking about... But if the mesh style gutter guards can reduce the number of time we need to someone to get up on a ladder it might be worth it...

I'm still waiting for the gutter people to get back to us with an estimate, so until I know more, I can't really make any decisions....


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I get the sense that you think I'm trying to talk you into the surface tension gutter guards. I'm not. I just don't have as low an opinion of their effectiveness as you do; that's based on knowing people who have them installed and where they do the job.

I personally wouldn't install them, but that's based on cost (as Cindy pointed out) and maintenance for our particular circumstances. We have a lot of trees that drop small buds and seeds that I think would clog them. It's not because I don't think they couldn't handle most rain storms.

But I digress...

After 40 years of home ownership, I've come to the conclusion that keeping a basement dry is like a game of Whac-a-Mole.

You can do a ton of research, get expert opinions, and install what you think is the perfect system and something may still not work as you expect it to. There may be boundary conditions like the seven inches of rain per hour that overwhelms even a well-designed and robust system. Or something else pops up after they are in that makes you think another approach/product/installation method might have worked better.

Just be sure you consider more than the gutters. I'm thinking grading in particular. I think it's often overlooked.

Good luck in your quest and hope your new gutters are in soon!


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Posts: 31287 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As I was looking around for info on the guards, I found this episode of This Old House where they install a completely different kind of rain diversion system. Tom Silva also talks about gutters in general how to avoid water running down the fascia board and rotting it.

Thought I'd pass it along....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2eLdeTl35c

Also info from TOH regarding various guard systems:

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/g...2/best-gutter-guards

Big "no" to the foam gutter inserts for us. We tried them as an experiment on our garage gutters. Our trees drop buds in the spring that stick to the top of those puppies. Total nightmare. Would probably work fine if you live in the middle of a meadow.


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Outrage is warranted. But outrage unaccompanied by analysis is a danger in itself.

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Posts: 31287 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Beatification Candidate
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In addition to keeping the gutters clear so water runs to the downspouts,(the plastic guards worked fine for us) we finally had to add longer sections at ground level to make sure that water started out away from the foundation...


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Posts: 6901 | Location: chicagoland | Registered: 21 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
I've come to the conclusion that keeping a basement dry is like a game of Whac-a-Mole.


Yes indeed!

quote:
Just be sure you consider more than the gutters.


Oh we are! But gutters are one part of the picture and since we'll be spending money on them, I want to make sure we're spending that money in the best way possible.

quote:
I'm thinking grading in particular. I think it's often overlooked.


This. I cannot get anyone to come out here and look at our grading and give us an idea of what might be altered/improved.

It is frustrating in general trying to get contractors to come out to the house, but certain fields are worse than others. Grading seems to one of them.

Also frustrating is the fact that jobs that, logically, should go together, are performed by different companies and there's not one company that does the whole thing.

So, the roofing company does roofs, but not gutters. But the gutter companies say do the roofs first because roofers might damage the gutters in the process. It looks like the roofing company we've (almost) settled on will coordinate with two different gutter companies, so we should be ok but it would be so much more convenient if it was one company.

Then there's a company that does basement water solutions. They do a variety of things including installing sump pumps, different kinds of basement sealing and foundation work, repair/sealing of basement window wells, and drainage systems (french drains, box drains, above ground drain-thingies). Guess what this company does not do: grading. And they don't even have any recommendations to make. Anyway, we had them out here in early 2020 but weren't ready to take on a big project. We are now, so that company is coming back next week. We'll see.

My real estate agent recommended a couple different people to us for grading, but I either can't get them on the phone and they never call back, or with one, I got him on the phone and he answered some questions, said he'd be in touch to schedule a visit, and then crickets.

The whole thing is just a huge time suck! (And since I'm the only one in this family that can do this kind of thing -- phone calling, setting up appointments etc. -- it all falls on me, which adds to the frustration at times...)

Anyway, we know the roof and gutters need attention, and it makes sense to work from the top down, so that's where we're starting. -_-


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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BTW wtg, thanks for the videos and TOH links, I'll check those out later.

I read about those foam things last year, we ruled that out pretty quickly!!


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Posts: 15462 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You don't have to wait for professionals to check the grade.

DIY grade check:

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/...ing-house-29165.html

Just make sure the 2x4 is not bowed. You can check that in the store by placing it on the floor each of the edges. And you can probably just use an 8 foot piece if a 10 foot won't fit in your car easily.

Another way to do it with just a level:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hYIda7tWqA

If the slope is wrong, you may not be able to add soil at the house as this guy indicates. Depends on how much your foundation sticks up above grade. You may have to lower the level out away from the house if the dirt is already piled up close to the top of the foundation. If you go over the height of the sill, then you could get water running over the sill and down the basement wall inside.

Or you can get some string, a couple of sticks to pound into the ground, and some line levels.

https://www.amazon.com/LudoPam...id=1617816833&sr=8-6

There are all sorts of creative ways to channel water away. It may require removing landscaping, or you may be able to sculpt around things and create swales that get the water away from the house.

Or maybe window wells:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hYIda7tWqA

I'm guessing Mr SK could do a lot of grade and drainage evaluation before anyone comes out to look at the site. It's totally within the skill set of a homeowner.

Of course will likely hire a professional to confirm the plan and execute it if you find you need work done...


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Posts: 31287 | Location: Somewhere in the middle | Registered: 19 January 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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