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Black Men Are Having a Moment — But Not a Good One
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quote:
Originally posted by Mary Anna:
I agree on all points but one. I think she did know the history of white women claiming that black men menaced them and she knew that this history was on her side.

Why else would she specify that an African American man was menacing her? It was code that he was dangerous, true, but it was also code that she was in particular danger as a vulnerable and desirable white woman.

The whole thing is disgusting. And so is the situation in Minneapolis. We've only just been subjected to footage of white people parading their guns through state capitals without becoming the target of tear gas and rubber bullets. And now they're being used on unarmed protesters?


+1000%
 
Posts: 45725 | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I’ll admit that I immediately took her for a wealthy, educated, privileged white woman. Part of this is the behavior and the outfit. And walking a dog in Central Park early in the morning.

But part of it is that the internet calls her a “Karen,” which biased me.


She was identified by someone who was a dog-walker for her. She worked at Franklin Templeton at a professional-level job. So she was clearly well off (maybe not wealthy, but certainly comfortable), educated, and DEFINITELY privileged. And she was clearly weaponizing the "white woman threatened by black man" meme. I have zero sympathy for her.
 
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Pinta & the Santa Maria
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Internet memes like "Karen" exist because there's more than a grain of truth to them.

BTW, is there a male equivalent of Karen? Just curious.

This whole thing is awful and inexcusable. There's no "but..." that makes sense when trying to explain it.
 
Posts: 35367 | Location: West: North and South! | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, I sometimes feel badly for someone who, in anger or a state of high emotion, says something stupid. It is natural to not like to be called out for violating a social norm. I had someone at work tell me he was offended by my profanity when I used the word "damned." It took restraint not to use a different swear word not to respond. But Amy not only notified police but acted out with her voice that she was in physical danger.

This public defender explains what could have happened without the video.

"A white person calls the police on a black man. The police arrive and take the side of his white accuser, refusing to believe his version of events. He is arrested and arraigned. An outrageous bail amount is set. His family can’t afford to buy his freedom. He gets sent to Rikers Island, where he sits for days, months or sometimes years.

Eventually, his case is resolved in some way — either because the charges are dismissed or because he decides to plead guilty to a lesser charge. In the meantime, he may have lost his job, his home, his children or some combination of the three.

Nothing like that happened to Cooper, thankfully. But the elements of the problem are plain to see."
 
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I think she knew what she was doing here.

Call me cynical.
 
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Minor Deity
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quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I’ll admit that I immediately took her for a wealthy, educated, privileged white woman. Part of this is the behavior and the outfit. And walking a dog in Central Park early in the morning.

But part of it is that the internet calls her a “Karen,” which biased me.


She was identified by someone who was a dog-walker for her. She worked at Franklin Templeton at a professional-level job. So she was clearly well off (maybe not wealthy, but certainly comfortable), educated, and DEFINITELY privileged. And she was clearly weaponizing the "white woman threatened by black man" meme. I have zero sympathy for her.


I know. But tell the truth. Did anyone assume she was educated, white, and privileged before these details came out? I did.
 
Posts: 19757 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by kluurs:
Yeah, I sometimes feel badly for someone who, in anger or a state of high emotion, says something stupid. It is natural to not like to be called out for violating a social norm. I had someone at work tell me he was offended by my profanity when I used the word "damned." It took restraint not to use a different swear word not to respond. But Amy not only notified police but acted out with her voice that she was in physical danger.

This public defender explains what could have happened without the video.

"A white person calls the police on a black man. The police arrive and take the side of his white accuser, refusing to believe his version of events. He is arrested and arraigned. An outrageous bail amount is set. His family can’t afford to buy his freedom. He gets sent to Rikers Island, where he sits for days, months or sometimes years.

Eventually, his case is resolved in some way — either because the charges are dismissed or because he decides to plead guilty to a lesser charge. In the meantime, he may have lost his job, his home, his children or some combination of the three.

Nothing like that happened to Cooper, thankfully. But the elements of the problem are plain to see."
Getting arrested is a huge big deal, even beyond what the public defender lists.

If you get arrested and booked into jail, they will take your mug shot. In many states, these are a matter of public record, so prospective employers who google you may run across it. There are services you can hire to bury your mug shot in google so people cannot find it so easily.

And in some jobs -- especially those with security clearances -- getting arrested is a problem. I know in my office that if I get arrested, I have to immediately report this to my managers so they can institute whatever process they have for deciding if I should keep my job.

So those are other risks and potential expenses to which she exposed this man.
 
Posts: 19757 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
quote:
Originally posted by QuirtEvans:
quote:
Originally posted by Cindysphinx:
I’ll admit that I immediately took her for a wealthy, educated, privileged white woman. Part of this is the behavior and the outfit. And walking a dog in Central Park early in the morning.

But part of it is that the internet calls her a “Karen,” which biased me.


She was identified by someone who was a dog-walker for her. She worked at Franklin Templeton at a professional-level job. So she was clearly well off (maybe not wealthy, but certainly comfortable), educated, and DEFINITELY privileged. And she was clearly weaponizing the "white woman threatened by black man" meme. I have zero sympathy for her.


I know. But tell the truth. Did anyone assume she was educated, white, and privileged before these details came out? I did.


From the video? Absolutely I did.

I also assumed that her rising panic, when he was a distance away and not threatening her, was deliberate and manufactured and malicious.

Beyond that, the way she was strangling her dog while making that phone call made me dislike her intensely.
 
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Did anyone assume she was educated, white, and privileged before these details came out? I did.


The only thing I assumed was that she was racist.

OTOH, whether or not she identifies as liberal, how she votes or donates to political parties, are not irrelevant. And I think it's important to call out liberal racism, or the "I don't see color" brand of racism etc.

Having said that, I didn't read the article about her, so I probably shouldn't comment beyond that...


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Unfortunately, I had already heard about the racism issue in connection with the video before I saw it.

I wish I had just seen the video first without commentary. I'm not sure where my brain would have gone first. Honestly, the dog strangulation took most of attention, so I'm not sure how quickly I would have gotten to "Hey, how come she is phrasing things that way, and what did he do that is threatening?" I'm not sure I even heard "African American" at first; I heard barking and saw a cute little dog fighting for its life.
 
Posts: 19757 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Cindy, I think I misunderstood your comment above mine. I see what you mean now.

I had also read about the incident, knew that she was wrongly calling the police about a Black man, and I think I even read that she had almost strangled her dog in the process. So I knew to expect the dog, and all those details before watching the video.

I think if I were shown the video without any kind of preface at all, the dog would have attracted my attention first, and then I probably would have noticed the "African American" comments, and also wondered how someone can feel so threatened when there is no one within 20 feet of them....


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Posts: 18330 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I think his remark may have played a role in her really feeling threatened. (Paraphrase) "OK, if you're going to keep doing what you want to, I'm going to do something I want to - but you're not going to like it".

I didn't watch the video so I don't know how close this remark was to her calling the police (or if he'd already started giving out dog treats).
t


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Posts: 14392 | Location: PA | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The sequence of events is that he said what he said before the video starts. If he fed her dog treats, that was also before the video starts.

Almost the 1st thing we see is her moving aggressively toward him and getting right up in his face. That is not what you do when you feel threatened.

She is confusing feeling "threatened" with feeling "beside herself with rage."

It's the same thing you see on the road. You calmly ask someone to do the right thing (say, ask them to move their cart to the shopping cart holder instead of abandoning it where it is a menace to parked cars, and they lose their minds).
 
Posts: 19757 | Location: A cluttered house in Metro D.C. | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You calmly ask someone to do the right thing (say, ask them to move their cart to the shopping cart holder instead of abandoning it where it is a menace to parked cars, and they lose their minds


Yes


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Posts: 18330 | Location: not in Japan any more | Registered: 20 April 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I must have missed it, but where is the link to the video?


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