I revel in being single and that ability to just go somewhere local on the way home for dinner.

I stopped at fav local restaurant/bar tonight that supports my employer and has good food. I love to sit at the bar so I don't take up a table but also so I can people watch.

Tonight 3 big ole (younger than me, one talked of his 4 year old daughter) guys were next to me..talking about child care..that how they were supposed to be doing it now, then making comments about how hot the hostess (16 years their junior) was...

They started in about Trump.."I hate that guy...but"

The but got me..they started in on about the 'good" The Orange Cheeto has done.What a business man he is...They talked about veterans and taxes but I got that they were just regurgitating the drivel...

So how does someone who hates Trump goes on to say..But...

This scares me really...

Part of their discussion included complaints about the traffic issues on the highway nearby..on the way to nearby Manchester NH...sigh..The site of tonight's debate.

"You do realize that just about every accomplishment you listed is fake news??"

Anyone who begins a conversation that way really does like Trump, but is still embarrassed to say so. I suppose that's a small step above the MAGA-hat waving acolytes who think he is God's chosen ...

People are going to see what he's done from different perspectives.

1) Under his administration, though mostly due to McConnell, there's been a significant increase in the number of conservative judges. A negative for me, a positive for others.

2) He has rolled back protections for the environment. A negative for me; others will see this as freeing things up for more economic growth.

3) The economy is doing relatively well. A positive for me, but I see it as a continuation of a trend that started under Obama after the crash. You can cherry pick statistics to try to show otherwise, but I don't think Trump is doing any better than Obama did. Look at the graphs and the trend lines say it all. No one on the other side cheered every time the stock market set records under Obama, but do for Trump. Trump pooh-poohed certain statistics before he was elected, but now he uses them to demonstrate how successful he's been. That's just politics and tribal loyalties.

4) Tax breaks may have cut income taxes, but for individuals that's a temporary cut and corporations are the major beneficiaries. Not to mention that the tariffs have raised the prices on any number of products. Plus the fact that the projected increase in tax revenue isn't happening and the deficit is ballooning.

5) As far as foreign policy, I think this is where I view Trump as having done the most damage. He has damaged our relationships with traditional allies and ingratiated himself with dictators and autocrats. He got some nice photo ops with KJU, but we are not one whit better off with respect to the DPRK. They're still testing missiles and doing everything they were doing before. Ditto for Iran. And we know what he tried to do with Ukraine.

6) Lastly it comes down to approach and temperament. He thrives on chaos and disruption; he thinks the world revolves around him and he is incapable of admitting he made a mistake. His incessant desire to have people dancing around him and praising everything he does is what drives his decision making; I don't think he has any guiding principles beyond that.

He takes pride in humiliating the people he perceives to be his enemy, and ultimately nearly everyone becomes the enemy because they inevitably screw up (as far as he's concerned). I think he's contributed significantly to further dividing our country. We need someone unifying us. We don't need someone playing on our tribal instincts and underlying hatreds for certain peoples. We also don't need the PT Barnum showman. Well, at least I don't.

I think this last part of him is what leads to the "I don't like Trump, but" people. They recognize he is a deeply flawed person but for whatever reason, they agree with how he thinks on certain matters, so they are willing to look the other way.

quote:

3) The economy is doing relatively well. A positive for me, but I see it as a continuation of a trend that started under Obama after the crash. You can cherry pick statistics to try to show otherwise, but I don't think Trump is doing any better than Obama did. No one on the other side cheered every time the stock market set records under Obama, but do for Trump. That's just politics.

Krugman's deconstruction of that ...

What We Can learn from GOP Fiscal Hypocrisy

Which measures of the economy do you folks expect to get better under a Sanders or Warren presidency, as compared to four more years of Trump?

Not that I'm assuming one of those two will get the nomination, I just think it makes for the most interesting comparison.

quote:

Originally posted by Horace:
Which measures of the economy do you folks expect to get better under a Sanders or Warren presidency, as compared to four more years of Trump?

Not that I'm assuming one of those two will get the nomination, I just think it makes for the most interesting comparison.

Again, given the imprecision of your question, you'll be able to reject any answer.

An obvious one is income inequality.

Another is the number of medical bankruptcies.

I hate Trump, but I like that he rolled back the Obama-era ‘Dear Colleague’ letter than threatened funding for any university that respected due process in adjudicating sexual assault cases.


What’s wrong with that? I still won’t vote for the bastard.

Blind pig, etc.